>> as i hold my spanx -- >> you threw me off with the spanx again. they are trying to buy themselves political cover, saying we will be back in a year and address that. but they are under that story already. the market knows what that is going to do. they want a wear. >> and two-year extension at least. remember, that's what got us into trouble in august 2011. >> that does it for us on "power lunch." >> sue, i'm off for the next couple of days and through chris ma. merry christmas to all our viewers. see you after the holiday. "street signs" right now. >> welcome to street signs where goldy locks is in effect. we've got two generals in the

news. general motors buying a big government stake back. and general mills posting a big number and its outlook and ceo of general mills is here. and call them the come back kids. why some of the worst stocks are bouncing back in quarter. watch out. billionaire land grab is on. incredible story of how the uber rich are buying up america. >> a pretty dull market day. flatly in the red here. let's try to spice it up for you, folks. all three averages, despite today, on the best pace since thanksgiving week. and also the day's best performers. even though the nasdaq is slightly lower, it is up nearly 3% during three-day winning streak. this is your global market. it is at its highest level on record. we have breaking news. let's get straight over to kate kelly. what do you have for us, kate? >> thank you, mandy. i just learned that hedge fund manager bill akman has a major

new shore position on. that's herb al life. they sell weight loss and nutritional product through weight loss centers. he considers it to be a pyramid scheme, i'm sure. he he will unveil details on why at the conference foundation investment gathering tomorrow morning. he concerns herbalife to be one of the best shorts he's ever seen. on july 31st, michael johnson came on our air and addressed concerns directly. asked by herb greenburg why the country of belgium and others described herb alla herbalife i scheme -- >> that's what a typical scheme is that you've addressed and others have concern with. we don't have that. >> shortly thereafter when herb asked why is there an faq as to

whether it was a pyramid scheme, johnson says this. >> i would say over 32 years, there's been questions. there's been talks about direct selling that sometimes there is this concept that cannot assumers aren't moving the product. that may be, but not with us. >> johnson will be on the defensive tomorrow as akman gives more details on his short. we called the company for comment. they refers us to comments thce made, which we just brought you. >> this is a big story, kate kelly, thank you for breaking that. of course, herbalife has been the subject of herb greenburg for a long time. he raised many of the same concerns. you saw parts of the ceo interview there where he said, no, no, no, we are an pyramid scheme. here is how it works. and ceo of herbalife said time

and time again that they simply do not understand the way it works. hopefully they'll issue a new statement, not just refer us back to the old statement. that stock right now is halted and down more than 5% before it was halted of course bill ackman, one of the most famous investors. not necessarily a short seller. generally takes a long position in stocks. rare shot from ackman calling it a pyramid scream reportedly. this is a big call from bill ackman. >> strong words there. >> yeah. two hours ago, holding an impromptu news conference, handling two big issues. guns and the fiscal cliff, now just 12 days away. john harwood is live at the white house. john, first off, what did the president have it say about gun control? >> he headed joe biden to look into places where laws can be strengthened on guns. on mental health. on record sharing, all of the

things that are related and called into question by the tragedy in newtown. he said he did not renounce his statement in the 2008 campaign that second amendment is an individual right, not just a right for militias or armed forces. but he stlaid there is a lot of room left. >> i said i'm willing to make some cuts. what separates is us probably a few hundred billion dollars. the idea we would put our economy at risk because you can't bridge that gap doesn't make a lot of sense. >> brian, sorry, that's a soundbite related to the fiscal cliff. of course the president also had comment about that. he said that republicans simply have not gone -- met him half way the way he met them half way. only few hundred billion apart from john boehner which isn't all that much over ten-year

span. all of this sets the table for john boehner's press conference a few minutes from now where he is going to talk about his response to the president. >> okay. indeed. well follow that at 2:15. thank you very much for that. going back to the issue of gun control. nearly 11 million guns sold last year and this year could be a record year. sandy hook elementary tragedy as many good sporting retailer. curbing sales of certain waebones. can k0ur9 courtney regan takingk at this. what have you found? a very passionate issue for many. >> so far dick's sporting goods is the only major gun retailer that made changes to firearm inventory following the tragedy in connecticut. dick's sporting goods removed all guns for sale and display in the store closest to newtown co. wal-mart tells cnbc it has made

no changes to its inventory the week of the tragedy though it has taken down an information page on one of the guns. sales have fallen since friday's tragedy. however, analysts i spoke to think the gun debate will benefit the retailers in the near term following election, fear of changing legislation causing a surge in demand in the month of november and the latest tragedy is expected to increase demand for guns pop. >> according to the fb i, the none of background checks have hit a record. that excludes the month of december. november saw nearly 400,000 more background checks than in

october. i should note the fbi says one to one correlation cannot be made between a firearm background check and an actual firearm sale. but mandy, these are the numbers that the analysts use when they are trying to gauge firearm sales. >> thank you very much for that, courtney. in the meantime we have heard he is off today as we were mentioning a moment ago, but he kindly phoned in. you have been following this story very closely. we did see the stock was halted on the ackman news. can we get your reaction, herb. now down by 8.9%. the hold is lifted. how do you feel about this? >> i want to point something out. we have been working on this for months. while the company just referred back to the statement they made on air with us a number of months ago. i actually was out in los angeles a week ago. i sat down with herbalife ceo, michael johnson.

premet they pretty much opened up their doors to us. and with genuinely great passion and believing that their company is misunderstood. have you critics on one side. very strongly voiced critics on one side and there are the companies. and there are a variety of different companies with different styles in the direct selling and multilevel marketing industry. so i think it is interesting. i think what will be interesting is to see what ackman lays out and what he believes he found in his investigation. so that's what we will be looking for tomorrow morning. >> herb, of course, david einhorn, probably the most successful seller on macro sale. >> no, don't say that. he never -- >> okay, the least worst kept secret. he is like -- let's move on.

i'm just saying it is out there. i get it. i get it, herb. >> i also want to point something else out, one of ackman's biggest short that i knew a long ago. we have a liftry on the short side of the street. i think you have to acknowledge that too. i think in this case, you have some people out there who certainly have been kicking tires here. einhorn raising a question or two on the conference call. >> i'll pull back on that. my other point is that einhorn, whether he is short the stock or not, had big concerns. and i'm agreeing with you. and ackman and the most respect, and fundamental research side. when you are out there touring facilities, did they further get into what it is that they

believe that smart gis like einho einhorn, akman and in some ways yourself, don't understand about the company. what are those guys missing? >> they believe people don't understand. >> in what way? >> brian, honestly, they believe that people are misinterpreting what they believe multilevel marketing is. when critics say these are companies that are quote unquote endless shames because there is recruiting. businesses built basically on selling to distributors who then earn bonuses by recruiting other people while attempting to sell product. there is a big issue here on who is buying product, you know, how the distributors themselves make their money. do they make the money by selling product or by mostly by recruiting others into this system? that is perhaps central to the even tire part of this.

the company insist upside down and backwards we are on the up and up. i said, do you think the ftc would ever come after you? the federal trade commission? he said we are clearly doing everything -- >> herb, we will jump in there. we put out calls to analyst. once again, kate kelly broke the news. ackman called herbalife a pyramid scheme. well bring you more in a second. in the meantime, let's take a live look at the podium where speaker boehner is about to step up and speak in three or four minutes time. we will bring that to you as soon as it happens. >> i want it make sure and herb is right, i want make it clear, that herb is right to call this out, einhorn had concerns and so herb, i'm agreeing with you buddy. more after this.

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you are look at a live picture on capitol hill. house speaker john boehner is about to take the stand and he will be speaking to us. as brian a moment ago were discussing, kind of like a ping-pong news conference. one side stands up and gives their point of view. the other gives a rebuttal and we don't seem to move forward at any particular pace at this stage. >> who can blame the american public for being confused in part, right?

we're confused sitting up here. but that's just about a lot of other things. here is the reality, president comes out earlier and said the gop is not giving in. they should. then you have boehner coming out and saying, this is what we offer. the president did not accept it. >> we have john harwood as well. john, what are we expecting boehner to say? >> i would expect him to say, he would try it pass plan b and dare the president to veto it. >> i will just jump in because speaker boehner is starting now. let's listen in prs. >> the president's offer of $1.3 trillion in revenue and $850 billion in spending reductions fails to meet the test that president promised the american people a balanced approach. i hope the president will get serious soon about providing and working with us on a balanced approach.

tomorrow the house will make permanent tax relief for nearly every american. then the president will have a decision to make. he can call on senate democrats or be responsible for the largest tax increase in american history. >> okay. that was very quick. speaker boehner now left the room. >> john, are you still there with us? what do you think of that? >> i think this is the speaker trying, in a very cursory way, to put the onus on the president. again challenging him on the vietnam why threat we talked about earlier. he said would he pass that plan b in the house tomorrow. sounds to me like he may have done some vote counting already. because there is turbulence within the republican caucus. today we had grover norquist group say, this is not a tax increase on anybody.

because taxes are slated to rise on january 1st. but you have the club for growth another very active group saying no, h is a terrible idea. it is a tax increase. not only on million dollar incomes but also on cap gains and dividends from current 15% level. now, that underscores the schish on the caucus. norquist and his people were accepting the democrat's argument that if you do nothing taxes will good up and if you allow taxes to go up you are not really voting to increase taxes you are just going along with current law. is it a chpy situation within the republican caucus. both sides trying to figure outweighs to put pressure on the other. president still got the upper hand in terms of public opinion because not only is he more popular than the republicans in congress his proposals are more popular than the republicans. guys?

>> can we read anything into what is happening? >> i think the speaker wants to cut a deal with the president. he is hamstrung by conservatives in his caucus. he is saying a little as possible to preserve his maneuvering room within the caucus because the odds are very good that if we do get a good deal, he will have to say that it isn't quite so unreasonable. so he is trying to preserve as much flexibility as he can given the pressures from the president on one side and his caucus on the other. >> john, thank you very much. all right, let's get a ceo perspective now and bring in general mills ceo ken. ken i want it talk about the quarter and sales and something happened that hasn't happened in two years. your reaction to not only speaker boehner but the fiscal cliff discussions and negotiations in general please.

>> we are looking for a compromise, looking for balance. it is very important that our policy makers come together and get to a good resolution of the issue. and beyond that i mean, i'm following it and watching it as you guys are and hopefully they will move past this and we will get to a good resolution. >> how concerned are you that there are higher tax rate and how might that material affect you? >> as an american and looking broadly, i'm concerned it has to be resolved. if you want to be narrow and industry specific, the food industry is so resilient. general mills has been around for 140 years. we've been around all kinds of economy answers tax regimes and we do well in good times and in times that aren't as good. for our industry that is not as resilient we aren't as concerned. as as american we want it see this resolved in a balanced way. >> indeed. just going back to what brian

said, good news, you just posted your first quarter of positive sales volume in retail business in two years. congratulations. the question is whether or not that is the sustainable whether you can continue to post positive sales and future quarters. >> well, i very much think so and we lost this cycle of volatility and high inflation we have seen over the last couple of years really causing momentum to stall. last year we had very high inflation. 11%. quite a bit of pricing that went consumers saw higher prices. not only for general mills but throughout our industry and that caused volumes to stall. we lost momentum. as we come into this new year. lower levels of inflation. consumer is seeing price stability. and as we see that, we are seeing our volume start to recover. we expected that to happen. now we are seeing it happen and it is encouraging and we think we can sustain this going forward.

>> i visited with you ken. it must be nice to get back it growing and running a food company rather than trying to be a logistics expert. >> well, we've got to do both. but it is nice it see that volume growth and it has been nice to see inflation come down to a more manageable level for us. it'll be, you know, between 2 and 3% for us this year which we can offset for the most part through productivity. that's a good -- you're right, brian, that's a good environment and good formula for us. >> does that mean, bottom line, no more price hikes for us as consumer when we pick out cheerios on the shelves? no more price hikes in 2013? >> we are seeing price stability. if we continue it see moderate levels of inflation then it is very likely that's what the consumer will see. >> i would like it ask you, i'm putting you on the spot a little bit here, but i'm sure something everyone wants it know, are you interested in making a bid for

hostess in whole or in part? >> no is the answer. we would not go into these m and a active. >> no twinkie and cheerios. >> i don't think so. >> in our household, a hamburger helper whiz. you've been doing good stuff in africa, fighting for hunger in africa. i will give you a softball because i think it is good charitable work. >> thank you, i appreciate that. we have a great partnership with our neighbor here in minneapolis, cargil. dsm, largest ingredient house in the world. a global agency and usaid, which which is the u.s. american aid in development. in kenya, ethiopia and other africa countries, we are with

these small companies, helping them get bet are with what they do. as they grow and improve and their products get better they are sourcing more of their inputs, grain, wheat, from local growers and it is a fabulous virtuous cycle and so we are very involved this that right now. and our technologists are on the kbrund and heground and helping. it makes a difference for the food economy there. >> fantastic work. good for you. and good in other parts of the emerging world as well. thank you very much, ken pal. >> thank you. >> once again, top stock story right now is herbalife. trading down 11%. here is the news, noted investor bill ackman, broken by kate kelly here at cnbc, is short hern herbalife. he is betting the stock will fall. he essentially called it a pyramid scheme. which has been raised by others.

the company denies that claim. bit way, the ceo came on with mandy and jim and herb and myself in july. i've posted the video where he addresses these concerns to my twitter account. i'm sure mandy will retweet it. you can see the video. that's about big story today broken by our own kate kelly. >> indeed it was. next round, round two of holiday battle royale. which of these high end retail rivals will win? our analyst is ready to go. ncer] this december, remember -- what starts with adding a friend... ♪ ...could end with adding a close friend. the lexus december to remember sales event is on. this is the pursuit of perfection.

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call it the billionaire land grab. buying up chunks of america. robert frank, buying up where and who? >> everywhere. wealthy families are buying up millions of acres of land in ranches, forests and remote areas of the country. for the rich, land is the new favorite investment. it generates a lot of income and it won't rise or fall like stocks. king of billionaire land grabbers, that is the john malone. owning more than 2.2 million acres of land. ranking second, ted turner also

former cable chief, dedicates most of his land to conservation. he o owns about 2 million ache perps third largest is family i b bet you've never heard of. the archie red emmerson family. they own 1.84 million acres. ranches in montana and timber land in maine are becoming very popular. they are also using them for hunting, fishing and horse back riding. plus a lot of fun to fly around your helicopter and look at all your holdings. >> it is like jim rogers, who always said, you know, when you ask for him example, what should i buy? he said buy farm land. put on your over alls. put on your hat. and get out there and buy farm land. >> in the 1800s, you valued

yourself by land. it is like mark twain saying they are just not make anything more of it. not many people can gather 2 million acres anywhere in the world. >> farming is hard and i'm lazy. >> but if you're a billionaire, you get other people to dot tractor work. >> and i can get a pumpkin named after me. >> you will be flying around in your helicopter. >> right. that's mine. that's mine. >> coming up next -- >> come back kid. some of the most beaten down stocks earlier this year are coming back this quarter in a big way. we will dive into two of them. netflix and first solar coming up. >> and checking in on herbalife. bill ackman came out with a short position and said it was a pyramid scheme. we are seeing the stock moving down by nearly 10%. we are following this story and continuing on this developing story here for you on cnbc. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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all right, let's look at herbalife again. bill ackman shorts herbalife, reportedly calling it a pyramid scheme. there have been concerns in the past. all of a sudden, the biggest story of a day. >> shorting herbalife for seven or eight months. >> where are we some here is a chair for you to stand on. >> this has to do with home builders. let's look at lenar and other sectors. >> a bigger drop than some expected. the majority of the down is in

single family units. however, important to keep in mind, year or year, single family up about 20%. lennar doubled this year. >> it has. and as if he wasn't rich enough, getting richer and richer. and oracle moving pup. >> and the cloud, revenue up 3.4%. software license sales rising, cloud subscription sales rising and the number of malibu mansions he owns also rising. stock up 33% on the day. >> maybe he can give us one. in the meantime, analysts spect over at&t. >> a kerfuffle. >> oppenheimer thinks if we have more uncertainty, ge may benefit more than the lesser known names. >> i want to look at rim. is it possible for a new browser to be faster than an drud and

apple. going from android to apple. >> like noted, pretty slow. a pretty prominent blog came out and said that the interneat browser was faster than apple and faster than window's 8 mobile browsers. they didn't test android. i don't know why. but still, hey, rimm beating apple in something, apparently. >> good for them. this one is a shout out to you, herb, if you are watching on your holiday. he nailed this one. >> yeah. some say i was yelling at herb. i wasn't yelling at him. i was yelling with him. >> we don't laugh at him. we laugh with him. >> herb, you nailed this one as well. that it. let's call these the come back kids. stocks that were beaten down most of the year that this quarter have really come back. in fact, i ran a screen last night. look at these returns. these are quarter to date

numbers. this quarter, netflix up 79%. first solar, that is up 51% this quarter. nearly coming back by the way it where it was one year ago. abercrombie and fitch and general financial all coming back. first solar is really come back kids here. >> first of all, let's bring in john bridges, executive director at j.p. morgan. you've got a rating, i believe, of mutual. up by over 51% quota to date. what do you see in terms of whether or not this can continue to come back? or is this a flash in the pan? >> i think the thing to remember is that call stocks in general have a general market. and an alpha is probably more reference of that. it tends to show a lot of leverage. we have seen this bounce back in the general market that helped.

there is also the pick up in all of the flattening out in prices. this stock really is levered to those and prices have stabilized in the last contract for that's been announced for q1 and -- >> sorry to interrupt john. we have breaking news and with have to break on. . >> next year will be a transitional year. >> global coal, absolutely moving. thank you, john bridges. let's flip over and talk about netflix. it is the best s&p 500 stock up this quarter. 33% over the past year. michael is managing director at web bush security but he has a sell and $45 price tag on netflix. so you are not believing this rally? >> not even close. this stock is up on two events. one is carl icon decided he he

knows better than anybody else. he bought it hoping to sell it. second, they made a deal with disney and got more than they could with disney and sony and so that is central to my thesis that they can't make money. the guys who love them have some belief that these guys can keep growing and raise prices and not have to absorb higher content costs. and what we are seeing is once they lost the stars content earl earlier in the year, they started to fade -- >> you are making a powerful thesis. but what could be the black swan? the hole in the these snis. >> the only way can i be wrong is if consumers are stupid. if they pay 8 bucks for worse and worse content every year then they will thrive. pay $8 for $5 worth of content

and sell it for $8 and make profit, if consumers flock in, that's great. that's not happening. >> thank you very much. see you again soon. >> thank you? >> more on herbalife after the break. bill ackman after a year of work, shorting the stock, according to our cnbc's own kate kelly, he considered it to be a pyramid scheme. you don't want those words associated with your stock. >> yeah. and he is expected to announce that tomorrow. we will continue watching this for you here on "street signs." tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about low-cost investing.

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>> thank you, buddy. we look forward that t.o that. if you are look fog load stockinges with luxury stocks we are here to help. this is the next part of the fierce competitive series putting companies into a fierce cage match where we can win. >> there is really no matches. just three smart people. >> we size up the competition. once again we have our fabulous panel lined up here, sitting next to me here is jan, ceo of worldwide informative department store executive in the middle very lovely stacey and president of sw retail and cnbc adviser with pink boxing gloves and burt strategic resource inside group. first, courtney sets up today's fierce competitors. let's listen in. >> get toward shop until you drop in the ring today, a battle of high end heavy weights, nordstroms versus sachs.

nord trom, 240, saks, 110. nordstrom sales are up 10.7% year over year while saks is up 3.3%. last year nordstrom's holiday profit is up 6.7% but saks came in with 30.7%. try that on for size. >> so begins the battle of high end heavy weights, nordstrom versus saks. nordstrom known for customer service pen saks, when economic times are good, about 20% of all sales come from new york city and nordstrom doesn't have a full line location here, at

least not yet. >> courtney has her opinion and of course so do our guests. ladies first always on "street signs." stacey, who do you like here? >> i'm going with nordstrom. yesterday i was in saks. 40% off sales in full swing and today 60% off. and plenty of items. i'm concerned about their trend. nordstrom, integrated in-store and on-line, that's the line here. you want it play the integrated player and they are ahead of the integrated retailers. >> what about you, burt? >> well, nordstrom has done a great job with e-commerce and land based stores and blake nordstrom and his brother, peter, the whole family since they reunited one of the best retailers in the u.s. and soon

to be in canada too. >> you know, nordstrom is more than double the size of saks in terms of number of stores. is it fair to compare the two? who is your pick? >> it is not fair and my pick is still nordstroms. a lot more than double the size and their profitability on a doll are a of sales is more than double the size as well. that's because of all of the things that were just brought up here. it is true, jamie nordstrom has done a fabulous job of making an om any channel retailer. >> what does that mean? >> it means they are really good on the internet. and they are really good in the storees. and that's what you have to be to make it all work. >> okay. so what would saks have to do to make that your pick? >> be better. >> you are a genius. what would it have to do to make you earn more in saks' favor? >> they are a bit behind in terms of the omni channel.

if you look at theirs stores, in terms of the fashion forwardness, they are a bit behind. nordstrom is doing a bit better in execution and bringing in top shop alliance. which is one of the biggest threats coming into the united states eventually. it is a lot aboutant gracing. >> burt? ? >> saks hasn't reinvested since they add true merchant and martin in the early 90s, then went on bob to do current trend turn around. but leaving saks stripped of cash and the company is making very little money, to jan's point, compared to nordstroms. >> and rosemary bravo, it hasn't been strong since she left. >> we know you like nordstrom over saks. does that make saks a bad company or just not as good as

nordstrom. >> i think since they are so concentrated, so east coast, nordstrom's isn't. they can sell product all over america. >> seattle-based company too. >> seattle-based. saks is new york base end continues to be. it needs a broader appeal. and it needs to get rid of more bad stores to drive up that profitability per dollar of sales. >> the bottom line is nordstrom, nordstrom, nordstrom. >> didn't even get my boxing gloves on. >> didn't even need the boxing gloves. >> can't make 44 cents a share and have nordstrom make 3.44 a share and come close. that's what stacey and jan said. >> saks has been outperforming nordstroms for the last month, last two months, so they are doing something right and steve did say his omni investor says if they can catch up, saks has a

fighting chance aep i wouldn't put them totally out of the battle. >> courtney, saks is no longer reporting monthly sales. nordstroms will for two missouris. >> all right friday we will do this again. hopefully disagree and break out the gloves. >> you got to get together beforehand and see how you like it. we want to you disagree --? the meantime, following the herbalife story. down 14% as kate kelly broke the news bill ackman considers it t terms of the market, now at the lows of the day on the dow which is down by 66 points as we speak. stick around. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. at usaa, we know military life is different. we've been there. that's why every bit of financial advice we offer is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. [ laughs ]

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okay. welcome back to "street signs" everybody on cnbc. there's herballife stock down 14.6%. bill acker, noted investor shorting this stock according to cnbc's own kate kelly, and right now we're joined by the ceo of herballife michael johnson. he has called in. we do appreciate it. we know it's a tough day. you don't want this kind of news to come out, but you heard what kate is reported and what ackman

is claiming. refute his claims or address them, first. >> first of all, guys, this is not about herballife's business mold. this is about bill ackman's business model. this is wrong, totally wrong what's taking place. where is the s.e.c. protecting the individual shareholder right now? this is blatant market manipulation. appears to be another attempt to legally manipulate the market by another group of short sellers. here's what we know. an extraordinary number of puts on our stock were due to expire this friday. we previously learned this activity was pegged at some kind of, quote, significant event. mr. ackman suddenly announces he will make a presentation on herb herb herbalife this tuesday. our ceo called mr. ackman and asked him to participate. mr. ackman said no and he refused. now we know that this has been going on in the shadows, as we say for the last eight months. this is ridiculous what's happening here.

we're not a pyramid scheme. that's a bogus accusations. we have millions of customers around the world. we don't pay for recruiting, been in business 32 years. we just announced a $100 million facility in north carolina employing over 500 people with the governor of north carolina this morning. this is a legitimate company. mr. ackman's proposition that the united states would be better when herbalife is gone. the united states will be better when bill ackman is gone. >> one of the folks that consider your company to be a pyramid scheme, something that's come to you in the country of belgium through a lawsuit and more recently today by bill ackman and others including david einhorn. are the sales confined to your own distribution network or is it broader than that? >> we have millions upon millions of customers. lieberman research was hired by us to go out and verify and validate that. we've been validating that for the last two quarters and will

continue to do that. never been a problem. none with the ftc. none with anyone. our customers are sometimes called distributors. that's the only confusion that we, have and they are distributors because they get a discount on our product. >> can you give us a percentage figure, mr. johnson, as to what percentage of your sales are outside that distribution network? >> 90. >> so the vast majority? >> absolutely. >> so michael, we heard your strong comments on ackman, okay. i'm not going to agree or disagree. i don't know bill that well. a smart guy. can't refute that. david einhorn, don't know his position, but he raised questions as well. what are they missing? what are they not seeing or not understanding specifically about your company? >> they need to come out and spend time with us, just like herb greenberg did two weeks ago. they need to come and see our customers and our opportunities and see the way that our products are made and see the way the business is put into the marketplace. these guys are listening to a report that was generated bay research firm in new york, and we've asked for that, and we've

sent her a legal letter as of this week to say send us this report. we'll talk to you about anything. we've been boxing in the shadows for ten months, this is ridiculous astations by people who are trying to manipulate our stock. >> we'll get more details out of this tomorrow morning at a midtown manhattan presentation and from what i'm told he considers this to be one of the best fundamental research cases he's ever seen, a short thesis on your company what. other issues are being missed in the translation you? don't spend a year based on one research report. bill ackman is known for doing good fundamental research on his ideas, good or bad, and puts a lot of work into it. >> i'm sure he does. why didn't he come to talk to us? >> i'm sure he'll talk to us about response to investors. >> i'm sure we'll have one ready. >> take us more into the call. you said your ceo spoke with ackman this morning, and you said you asked him to

participate. what did you mean by that? >> our cfo participated in mr. ackman's presentation tomorrow, and he refused. >> you guys said, hey, you're going to slam us. let us be a part of it and ackman said no? >> that's correct. >> did he give you a reason why he said no? >> no. >> would you do it if he changed his mind? >> absolutely. >> do you expect him to change his mind? >> oh, no. >> and you also mentioned, sorry about these rapid-fire questions, michael, you mentioned market manipulation. you came out swinging pretty hard at the beginning of the interview and mentioned options expiring on friday. obviously very passionate about this. what are you prepared to do? are you planning to take further action, if you really believe something was going on. >> we want the s.e.c. to take action. >> michael, are we correct in surmising that you consider this to be a market manipulation, a bunch of shorts ganging up on your company.

you're getting accusations from bull jim and ackman and other small investors voting with their wallets. is it just a broad misunderstanding? >> yes. >> and to what do you attribute that? you think it's rumor-mongering in the snarkt >> you know, something, guys, i don't want to get too much deeper into this. the lawyers are going to go crazy so i'm sure they are already. i have to say thank you very much for the type. this is not the last that you've heard from me. >> michael, you still there? >> yes. >> before you go, we won't get you in any more trouble with your counsel, i certainly understand that. sitting there with a legal pad and pen. before you go, make the case for herbalife. you've been defending the company and address what had ackman is going to say and make the case for your company, to the investors that are watching cnbc right now. >> herbalife has been in business for 32 years. we give people a personal business opportunity to make a little money, if they want to work their butts off, tails off they can make more than a little